#014 A Photographer's Journey: Claudia Johnstone

In this engaging conversation, Melissa interviews Claudia Johnstone, a talented photographer who shares her inspiring journey from a diverse career path to becoming a successful photographer. Claudia discusses her early influences, the challenges she faced in pursuing her passion, and the pivotal moments that shaped her career. She emphasizes the importance of listening to one's gut, the value of mentorship, and the significance of personal growth in the creative field. The conversation highlights the power of resilience and the belief that anything is possible with determination and support. In this conversation, Claudia and Melissa explore the significance of community in photography, the personal journey of discovering ADHD, and the transformative power of coaching. They discuss how these experiences have shaped Claudia's approach to her photography, particularly in raising awareness about ADHD through creative projects. The dialogue emphasizes the importance of self-discovery, emotional awareness, and the courage to pursue one's passions while fostering connections with others.

Takeaways

• She faced challenges in pursuing her passion due to self-doubt.
• Assisting other photographers was crucial for her learning.
• Claudia found her niche in dog photography, which was fulfilling.
• Listening to her gut led her to make significant career changes.
• Winning a photography competition opened new doors for her.
• Editorial work helped build her confidence and connections.
• Personal development has been a key part of her journey. Community support is vital for overcoming imposter syndrome.
• ADHD can be a source of creativity and understanding.
• Coaching can lead to significant personal growth.
• Self-awareness helps in managing emotions and challenges.
• Finding a unique voice in photography sets you apart.
• Emotional dysregulation is common in ADHD, but manageable.
• Connection with others enhances personal well-being.
• Investing in personal development is crucial for success.

Timeline

00:00 Claudia's Journey into Photography
04:05 Career Shifts and the Architecture Background
10:26 The Transition to Photography
16:45 Building Confidence and Finding Opportunities
24:17 Winning the Photography Competition
27:26 Navigating the Editorial World
33:23 Mental Health and Self-Advocacy
36:12 Navigating Client Relationships and Personal Growth
37:45 The Phoenix Her Stories Project
43:29 Understanding ADHD and Its Impact
50:08 Combining Coaching with Photography
56:42 The Journey of Self-Discovery and Empowerment
01:09:40 Future Aspirations and Community Impact

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Transcript

Welcome to today's podcast. Today we have with us my dear friend, Claudia Johnstone, and she is not only a great friend, she is an excellent photographer and someone who has had such an incredible trajectory that I felt she had to be my first guest that I interviewed. Claudia, welcome. I guess we could start by please introducing yourself.

Thank you, Melissa. Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited, especially knowing now that Yes, I'm your first guest on your podcast. So that's extra special. And, uh, yeah, you know, I love you. So I'm happy to be here. Well, thank you. And I know that there definitely will be some first beginner errors.

Thank you for putting up with whatever happens. And if you could give us an overview about what inspired you to become a photographer in the first place, because I know your backstory, but obviously the people listening don't. So if you could clue them in, that would be fantastic. What inspired me to do photography?

So I've always enjoyed photography. I've always enjoyed art in general, but, you know, growing up, I didn't necessarily, I didn't really have access to cameras. I did take class in high school a couple of times and I love that. So the idea to create something was always dear to my heart. And, you know, photography is one of those mediums to be able to do that.

I didn't really. Get completely into it until later in life. I did end up buying a film camera when my son was born a couple of years after. That really, I just love documenting our life and his life, him growing up. And I did get positive feedback from people saying, Oh my God, you got such a great eye. So that was, that was great, you know, to get that validation.

So in the back of my head, yeah, there might've been this thought of, Oh, how cool would it be to be a photographer? But it just always seemed very unattainable. So since people don't know how old your son is, give us some time, a timeline here so we know how many years ago that was that you're talking about.

Yeah, sure. So he's 32. I'm in my mid fifties and, um, yeah, it, So yeah, how many years ago was that? About 30 years ago. Yeah. That I, that I first bought my, you know, first camera film camera Minolta. And, uh, it, you know, back then I only shot in like auto, but that's okay. I felt like, you know, with film, obviously it's, it was also a bit more difficult.

Now you see the band, the back of the camera, what the final image looks like. Right. So back then you didn't. So shooting on auto was the safe, was the safe thing to do. And, uh, usually I still got. Some pretty good shots. So at that time, professionally, what were you doing? You weren't a quote, professional photographer at that time.

So what, what were you doing? No, I wasn't. Um, yeah, I always say that I have an eclectic resume and now knowing that I have ADHD, it all makes sense, right? Why I did so many different things in my life. And maybe I can backtrack a little bit. Like I was born in a very small village in Germany. And, um, it was a very rural place.

I ended up doing an apprenticeship for drafting. Uh, well, actually at first I did a year in like just office administration, and then I did an apprenticeship for drafting for architectural drafting. Worked in that for like two years and then ended up meeting my now ex husband. We ended up moving a couple of time within Germany and yeah, for the most part, I ended up doing like office work, office administration type work.

But when we moved to Kaiserslautern, I, uh, and my son was four years old at the time. I just felt that drive to do something else. And I've always had this idea of doing architecture because again, I loved creating something, designing something and the idea of it. So I decided, uh, when he was four years old to go ahead and sign up, uh, for, at the university and, uh, and to backtrack even further to that, My son, when we first knew we were moving to Kaiserslautern, I had already thought about signing up, you know, enrolling in college, in university.

And I did, but then also found out I was pregnant. So yeah. And then moving away at the time seemed so scary and, you know, being on my own with, with an infant. So I decided to. To not go to university at that time. And then again, four years later I was like, well, let me try this again. I don't know what I was thinking 'cause I was working part-time and you know, going to a university and raising a child.

A child starting university, . It's a lot. What's that? It's a lot starting, starting university, having a small child at home and that that is a. Yeah. Yeah. But I just knew I wanted to do something. I needed. I needed. Yeah. I needed to do something more. You know? So, so I did that. I finished my degree during that time.

We also moved and, um, I didn't really actually work in architecture until I moved to the UK. My ex husband got stationed there. So I worked in Cambridge for like two years in an architectural office, which was great. It was an international office. Loved working there. I met some great people. Then we moved to the U.

S. 2008. The housing market was terrible at the time, as you probably remember. So, you know, finding something in architecture was, was difficult. And also initially I concentrating on making sure, you know, we're all set up. With housing and, and my son was set up in school and everything. Yeah. And then an opportunity came along working for a German and Swiss person in a company where I ended up doing again, office type work, marketing type work.

But I liked the idea of, you know, being able to speak German and using those, my language skills. And, uh, yeah, I did that for a couple of years until the company. Went out of business. Okay. And that is when, that's when, when I pivoted, that's where the trajectory changed. There's that word pivot. I mean, that's big.

So you, you're, you're working in the U S and you decided this company is no longer. So you're going to. Make a big, big life change. Yes, exactly. I felt like it was an opportunity to go for what I really wanted. Cause it, cause you know, obviously the, the obvious way, the obvious decision would have been to do architecture, find something in architecture.

But I really asked myself the questions, do I really want to do this? Do I really enjoy this? And the answer was no. And you remember having those conversations, like having those thoughts with yourself or? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, yeah, it was definitely asking myself because at the time already I had done a little bit more photography on the side.

And there's some family photos and things like that. Photography at the time, you may remember that official business at this time, or you were dabbling in between. I was dabbling. Exactly. I was just doing a couple of shoots here and there, and I was thinking, Oh, how cool would it be to do this full time?

But. But I just still didn't think it was attainable, to be honest with you, but but then, yes, when that happened, when that when that business went out of business and I had to make a decision, what am I going to do next? What is next? So that's when I decided to pursue photography. And yeah, that that was interesting, because You know, finding something in photography as an actual paying job, like full time or something like that, those jobs aren't really out there, right?

You have that fork in the road, like when you literally can choose to go in either direction to, like you said, pursue architecture, or you listen to your heart or to whatever is going on in whatever you're thinking of, your passion, where your passion lies, and going off in another direction, the direction that you want to follow.

So it's a great story that you followed. Where you want it to go, where your heart told you to go. Exactly. Yeah. Because I was thinking to myself, okay, I can do architecture, which I'm not crazy about. And I know I wasn't, I just wasn't the best at it, you know, and it's almost, it hurts to admit that, but it's true.

I, it wasn't because I wasn't completely in it. And, you know, there are people that are way more talented. I was like, let them do, let them do that job. I mean, I have a great appreciation for architecture and I love including it in my, Whenever I have interesting, cool buildings, lines, textures, light, shadow, including, including built environment.

I love doing that in my images. But, uh, yeah, the thing is I would have had to do more schooling, probably, you know, more certifications and things like that, spend more time, energy, and money and all of this to really be competitive in the market. So your heart. is telling you to go this way with photography.

And as I spoke over you a minute ago, you were saying that hard for just become established as a photographer. So keep going with that. Because again, like, it's not just that you decide, Oh yeah, I'm going to be photographer now. Let me find a job. It, you know, I did reach out to, I think one or two, uh, photographers in the city that I, that I had, one that I had met, and I asked him about assisting.

And he was super kind in, in, in explaining that it's difficult to find an assisting job, full time assisting job. And he was actually moving out of town at the time anyway. But he, again, he was super kind to just, Just explain a little bit about it and give me some ideas. And so what I ended up doing was I found a job as a school photographer for a couple of, a couple of seasons.

Is that how you say it? Um, yeah. So school photographer, you're taking the, how every student has like their ID photo or is this for their photos that they're taking home to their family, their school, school picture. Right. No, no. It was actually the ID photos. Exactly. What you said. So, you know, you were super busy at right after the summer to get everybody photographed and it was, it was long hours.

It was hard on your body getting up super early. But the main thing that I learned about this job, because I feel like everything that you do is a bit of a stepping stone. You can take away something valuable, right? For your, um, for your journey that besides making a great friend out of this experience, I learned a lot about lighting and the biggest thing was it took away some of that fear that I had around lighting.

And when I say lighting, I mean, studio lights, right on location. So that was the biggest thing that I took away from that experience, along with making decisions quickly, a little bit more quicker. Picking the final image, because you had to be really fast. Yeah, I have such a hard time making decisions. So I was like, this one or that one.

Maybe I can take another one, make the child smile even better, you know. So that was interesting. So what did you find particularly, pretty much that is your first, I don't want to say job, but first paying job from photography, would you call it that? Okay. Absolutely. That's exactly it. Yeah, no, it wasn't necessarily super glamorous, but again, it was a stepping stone to get me where I'm at.

And, uh, and then the next important thing that happened was that I got an opportunity through a friend that knew another photographer, commercial photographer in town that needed help that was looking for an assistant. And she wanted somebody that could go on jobs with her, assisting on the jobs, as well as, In the office, which to me seemed perfect because I had experience with office work.

So yeah, I did that for a couple of years, I would say. So I knew you at this point, correct? Yes. I think we met shortly after that. Or while, while you were working with this person? Yes. This photographer. Okay. I'm just trying to think of what, how far back we're talking here. So that's. No, the timeline is.

Cause I think it was 2012 that, uh, I did the school photography. Okay. So what's that 12 years ago. And um, I did that for about a year, year and a half. And then I found this opportunity with that commercial photographer and that really was a great experience. And I think in general, photographers. And I don't know how you see it, but I think assisting is such a value, is always an invaluable experience.

Right? What do you think? Absolutely. We get asked all the time. Can we second shoot for you? And it's hard to explain sometimes to people that you actually learn more from being the assistant because you watch. And I'm sure in this case, maybe how the lighting set up, so just the whole approach to how the person, the photographer handled the job or the scope.

And like you said, you're not only seeing. Her work as a photographer, but you're also seeing all the back end of what goes into running the business. So that was an incredible opportunity. It really was. And also just knowing her and we're friends now, you know, just knowing that, yeah, you have somebody to.

To call, I ask questions. That's also always valuable, right? If I just had my assistant that's helped me on many jobs, reach out to me asking for guidance about pricing, right? For headshots. And that's always a big one, right? So it's always nice. So how long did you stay working with this photographer? Yeah.

So Karen, let's see. I've worked with her. I want to say about. So would you say you outgrew your role? What was the catalyst for you to move on from working with her? Yeah, that's a good question. Yeah, I think it was. Well, also I had an opportunity to work for another photographer. I'm mutual friend, Christine, and I helped her for a while.

And she was, she's, you know, more on the portrait side. Right. And this other photographer was more commercial architectural photographer, actually. Um, and yeah, and commercial, like for big companies and we were on, you know, big sets and I was doing like production and getting, um, Models and things like that.

So the other side was, you know, you know, something different. And again, that's why I liked being able to work for different photographers. I mean, I've, I've worked for you guys, right? Assisted you guys. And again, you see how different people work, how photographers work, how they do the backend. And what I loved about that is a, again, you get to see there's not just one way to do it.

Right. That's a great point. Yeah, more than one way to do something. Exactly. There's not just one way. And then also realizing that, well, you know what, I'm not actually that bad at what I'm doing. You know, like I, you know, I kind of got this part figured out or a little bit of this learning that helped me further.

So it's confidence building, self confidence building. But then would you Tell me what you're thinking as far as obviously you enjoy being a photographer as well, but while you're working for other photographers, what are you thinking inside? Like what thinking are you having? Like about your own potentially having your own business?

Like where are you at as far as that's concerned at that point? Yeah. Yeah. Good question. There's, um, there's definitely the drive to, to, there was definitely the drive to do more on my own. Right. But then the question was like, which direction am I going? What am I doing? How am I getting clients? So having a somewhat consistent assisting job, even if it's just a few hours a week.

Was very nice to have, and, uh, during that time I was just kind of pursuing opportunities, networking, you know, taking classes, right? Like, you know, we took a couple. The 40 something year olds in college. Exactly. I know it was fun though. It was fun. I'm so glad because we, you, you inspired me and honestly, Like I'm going to say this on the record.

I think it's on my website or on my bio that there were people you specifically that inspired me to keep going because it's hard when I think we're in an encore career, you and I, we started photography later, we switched gears and we became photographers at an age when a lot of people are not going to.

Make a decision like that. It's not the, it's not the most obvious decision for a lot of people to make, to switch careers at that point in their lives. And I appreciated so much, all the support that you gave me and the fact that we were able to then do some classes together. It was fantastic. Thank you so much for saying that.

Yeah, I did. It's, it's interesting. Cause you don't, I didn't necessarily see it like that, you know, like that I had such an impact, but I appreciate you saying that because obviously likewise, you've had a great impact on my. Trajectory as well. Just all the opportunities I got through you guys, but our friendship, you know, it's, it's, uh, priceless.

It's so fun watching the trajectory because we haven't even gotten to where you are now, but we're just the starting point. And just seeing that trajectory is exactly why that I would so happy to have you here as my first guest, because I think you embody so much of what I think some people think is impossible.

And then seeing everything I've seen over the last 10, 12 years of that trajectory. That's why I want it to be shared for everyone to hear. Because when people think something's not possible, it's completely possible. You just have to decide that you want to do it. And you, you live that every day. That's a very good point.

And thank you for saying that. And for seeing that, because a lot of times we don't see these qualities in ourselves. We, you know, stepping outside of ourselves is not something we really do. So having an outside view in a way it's validating, it's very good to hear. Cause again, we forget, we often forget what we have achieved and look more at what we haven't achieved.

I mean, we love, we love, we love reminding ourselves of what we don't do well or don't do right or the mistakes that we make, but you're right. We very rarely pat ourselves on the back and say, Hey, look what I've done. And that's why to me, to bring attention to what you've done, because I know what's inspiring to other people.

I know that the photographers that are out there thinking it can't be done, or, or even if they're not photographers, like just think of the women that are, You know, 35, 30, 35, 40 years old or even younger. They're 20 and they don't know what career paths to take. And they think that. Something's not an option like photography or something in the creative field.

And then watching an example like you, I think is so, so important because then they realize that, look, anything's possible as long as you decide for yourself that it's going to be possible. Yeah. I mean, and you too, by the way, you've been an inspiration for me from day one because you know, you, you try new things.

You try what you want to try you have an idea and you try it and if it doesn't pan out then you move on And that's okay. That's that to me is such a valuable Lesson whenever I see that happening with you guys. It's such an inspiration. It really is And you, and because of that, you've had a big impact on me as well.

Just, I think we've been having fun as we go. I mean, obviously we all have to pay bills and charge and have to do the whole business side of photography, but it is a lot of fun, like reinventing and trying new things. And that's why I have a lot more to ask you about that too, because as you're working with these other photographers, when is the next step?

Like what happens? But we were taking classes, you're working with photographers. You're thinking about your business. You're thinking about your business. What was your next step? When did you take that leap? Yeah. So 20 around 2012, again, when I had, even though I started, uh, During the assisting, I was, you know, doing family photos, dog photos.

A lot of it was volunteering like for the dog rescue, but you know, it's where my heart and soul was, as you know, our dog, uh, Dutch, a black lab, you know, loved him so dearly. Oh my God. Best dog. We always called him. And, uh, He was an inspiration to me to, at the time, concentrate on dog photography. I felt like that was my calling and it was at the time, you know what I mean?

It was very important on my journey to becoming a photographer because it was this idea of, or this, this drive and this wish to be able to evoke emotions in somebody when they look at the images. And obviously we love our dogs, right? Oh yeah. They were part of the family. And unfortunately they don't live long enough.

They never do. So they, they're part of our lives for a short period of time, but it's so intense. And I just really wanted to capture that cause I knew how much my dog meant to me. So that was part of my journey to where I really wanted to concentrate on that. And that again, led me to some other areas, but I also wanted to point out something before I forget.

About this whole decision, you know, in pivoting. And I remember very well sitting there in my house in Glendale and, um, looking at the computer and trying to figure out what I'm going to do next and applying for jobs, and I remember talking to my ex husband, he didn't get why we had a conversation. We did, he didn't get why I didn't want to pursue architecture.

I tried to explain it but and in his defense and we're good, you know, we're good It's not like we we hate each other or whatever, but he was a big part of my journey and a part of my life Right, but I remember talking to him about it and him not being you know that supportive Like he did not really see the point.

He did not really want me to do it yet. I listened to my gut I knew, I just knew, couldn't pursue architecture, it wouldn't be the right decision, I would not be happy. That's really powerful because a lot of people would not stand, I would say stand their ground. A lot of us are people pleasers, or do what's expected of us, like no, I'm supposed to be doing the safe job, or the safe career, or the safe thing over here.

And you listen to yourself, which is hugely important. And I think creatives, I'm going to say struggle with this, but I think they do struggle with thinking that that's not the, that's not the socially acceptable choice to be making. And maybe it's getting easier as time goes on. I'm not sure, but I can imagine how difficult that was for you to make that choice.

It was, it really was, but it was this gut feeling. Yeah. I just knew I had to do it. And that was one of the bigger decisions of my life that helped me get to where I'm at. So I'm sorry, I know I kind of riveted again, but I just felt like it was important to say. Oh definitely, that's extremely powerful because I think a lot of people need to hear that because so many people live a life maybe that they wish they weren't living.

Like they think you have to check those boxes, you have to do those things, the things you're supposed to do, and the correct, the right thing, the people pleasing thing to do is to keep going in a direction you don't want to go in. So to make that choice to listen to yourself, to listen to your heart and to pursue it against, you know, against all odds within your family, that it may not be, you know, what, what was thought by your, by your husband at the time to be the right, right thing to do for the family.

I don't want to keep overstating it, but it was really important for me to see how you were able to make that decision and you followed through with it. It just like, well, I'm just going to make this decision because some people do things flippantly and they don't follow through with it, but you did it.

And then step by step by step by step. You know, you built this career for yourself. Well, and again, the interesting thing is talking to you about it again, makes me remember it. And it makes me realize, you know, I did some pretty hard stuff, but I also followed my, you know, my gut and my instinct. And it's something that in retrospect, especially, although it was scary at the time and risky, I, in retrospect, I, it just, it was right, the right decisions.

And I bet all sorts of things popped up for you then, imposter syndrome. Self doubt, limiting beliefs about what was possible. I'm sure you were probably, your head was probably exploding with all the, all the conversations going on inside, thinking about what, what being afraid or whatever thoughts you were having.

Very, very much so. And then the other thing is, excuse me, I think that, and maybe that's also the German way of thinking. And obviously I haven't lived there in a long time, but still I remember thinking, okay, well, if you spend a lot of time and effort on an education. Right? Like, because in Germany, because I also did a part time for a while.

It was almost seven years that I went to university. But again, it's a little bit different in Germany. But still, I, um, like a lot of times there's that thought of, Oh, but you spend so much time, money, effort on this education. You really need to continue doing this. Right? And it's like, no, it was almost like hands and feet.

I was like, no, like, no, it's not for me. Again. I appreciate it. I love it. And I admire people who know how to do it. It just wasn't for me. But that's a really hard decision to make. I think it's called like the sink cost fallacy. I can't remember the name, but I'll look that up and put it in the show notes.

Like where you think you've invested so much time and money, I think that you have to keep going there to keep going. And I do believe that's, That's another social limitation that's put on us, especially as women, like we're supposed to do these, especially being a mother, a wife and trying to start a new career at a certain age.

I mean, that's definitely something that's way out of the box, not average, what an average person does. So I think that there's so many conflicts in our minds, you know, when, when we're making a tough decision like that and it's going against the grain for sure, which is why it's even more rewarding when it works out like it has for you.

Yes. It's been a journey, but yeah. Yeah. Thank you. It's been great. Definitely. So what was the next pivotal moment for you? The next big, the big move? Yeah. And it was actually when we took a couple of classes together at the community college in Phoenix. One of the teachers, I'm not sure if you remember, but he asked me if I wanted to be part of this competition, photography competition of, of several students.

And, um, I think, how many were there, maybe 10? I don't remember how many students total, maybe a little bit more. And, um, first I didn't want to. I was like, well, I'm not really a full time student. I'm not sure if I should do this. And he was like, nope, just, you know, just go ahead and do it. So anyway, I ended up.

Uh, signing up for this competition, it was actually really cool concept. And, um, all, it all happened in one day. Several people did, uh, it was several, uh, parts of it. You had to like do shoots. You had to edit the images right away and there were two parts to it. Like I made it to the final round. I was the third one.

I was, yeah, there were the first three got to go to the final round. I was the third one, but yet I won. I ended up winning this competition. Yeah, I know. And then the. Top prize was an internship with a local publisher and they published three magazines at the time. Now they publish one after COVID it changed, but yeah, so that was eight years ago.

And now let me interject because I want to know, what were you thinking when that opportunity came up? Were you reluctant to sign up to, to even get into the competition? Totally, totally. Yeah, I was very reluctant and I think it shows again that saying yes to opportunities is important. Um, yeah, I'm sure there was partially this, this thought of potential rejection cause I'm not going to be good enough.

You know, there was part of that. And then also thinking about fairness. Is it fair? Cause here I am not a full time student, but you know, my, my teacher recommended me or suggested it. So, yeah. And I didn't have an assistant at the time. He was supposed to have assistants. Everybody else kind of had assistants.

So I ended up being assigned someone. So it was kind of like, I kind of felt alone doing it. But at the same time, I think because of that, the reward was maybe even bigger, if that makes sense. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, just lay that out and then let's not forget, I mean, we, it had to have been very scary and not that being in our 40s has as a disqualifier for changing careers, but as I've said a few times already, That's, I think, a big deal at, at that age.

You know, you're throwing, throwing it all out there, you know, going, saying, F it, I'm doing this. No, come hell or high water. So I think that's exactly even more powerful for those listening that think that you can't take chances or it's not gonna work out, or it's meant for other people, not me. Like you're disproving.

Every one of those things, every one of those excuses you could have used to not put yourself out there and taken that step, taking that chance. Yeah. And I think it's, it has a lot to do with me being personally like a bit of an opportunist, which sometimes I, you know, I'm kind of torn. I'm like, I should be more goal driven and go towards one way rather than just taking care of winning.

This competition took me like, that was a huge step in my development, in my career, because I basically did like a couple of shoots, um, a couple of months for free as an intern. Right. Right. And I didn't know what to expect. I thought I was going to go on a shoot with one of the photographers, but no, I was basically sent out to shoot on my own.

And that was interesting. Like sink or swim. Right. Totally. I was like, and here I am. Okay. So we can talk photography and technology, right? Because most likely there'll be photographers listening, but here I am out there with my, uh, with my flashes, with my speed lights. Right. And just an umbrella and these wobbly stands.

And I like had, I think, two speed lights at the time, a little, you know, remote trigger and, uh, so off camera flash basically. And that was new to me. And I was like, yes, I did the school photography with lighting. I did the, um, I assisted my, the other photographer, the commercial photographer, but I didn't really have the equipment to do it on my own.

So that was like, Oh my God, that was so interesting. It was super scary. I remember the first ones. And, um, a lot of it was like hit or miss, but I, I managed to do it. Somehow I pulled it off. And then over time I ended up, once I, once they said, yes, they would like to hire me and, you know, use me for coming issues.

I ended up, you know, upgrading and eventually started to buy better equipment. But I think it also shows again that. You can do a lot with a minimum amount of equipment. Great point. Yes. Great. Yeah. Because one thinks that everything needs to be perfect. They have to have all the gear. They have to have all the clients, all, all the pricing figured out, everything figured out when really just getting going and doing something.

Putting one foot in front of the other, trying, trying, trying. You don't have to have everything ready to go. Yes. Yes. You don't have to have top notch, uh, you know, flash lights or whatever, but it helps sure. But again, you can gradually grow, you know, as you do more, you can buy more equipment. So yeah, that was, that was just an interesting, um, that was interesting part of my journey.

So yeah, so I ended up doing that. So that was about a little bit over eight years ago. that I started working for them. And I know, and I've pretty much shot every month for them since then. And I think there may have been one exception or so when I was on vacation, but I want to point out something here.

The fact that you took something, an opportunity to Become part of a competition, not knowing what the outcome was going to be. And secondly, that you were willing to do something for free. And I'm not talking about free shoots all over the place. This is something that had a purpose. You could see that this, there was an opportunity there.

That if you did this internship, That it would eventually lead to you being a paid photographer working for this magazine that has led to what you're about to tell us by taking that chance, by doing that challenge, by becoming part of this internship or whatever the correct terminology is for it, that you became basically their go to photographer.

And from there. Your entire, and I'm not saying that sole track, cause you had many of them. That wasn't, you had, you were doing portraits. You were doing other things, other types of photography, but this one, this one track definitely catapulted, I think your confidence and the other things. So. Speak to me telling you what that did for you.

You tell us. No, but you're absolutely right. That was a pivotal moment in my career, you know, and I didn't even know it at the time. I didn't even realize it until later. But yeah, it, it got me, it got me paying gigs. Although, you know, editorial doesn't pay much. Let's face that. Let's remember that. But what it does do, it gets you your name out there.

Right, it gets your name out there in the magazine. So, you know, just people knowing and it, what's the word I'm looking for? Validation? No, what's the word I'm looking for? Well, I'll think of it. But, but basically people knowing who you are. You can say, yes, I shoot for this magazine. And you have something to show for like anything, especially the first cover.

That was a huge moment too. Um, Well, it's social proof too. I mean, you can have the ability to show potential clients what you're capable of. So you're proving to yourself and you're proving to future clients what you're capable of. Exactly. So it gives you, so even though it doesn't give you a lot of money necessarily in the moment, it gives you that, it gives you also connections.

Lots of wonderful connections that I've been able to get clients from over the years, right? You work with PR people, you work with, uh, you know, individuals, you work with, um, people that own businesses. So entrepreneurs, the connections, you know, like looking at like, like if it was spiderweb, although I hate spiders, but you know, just looking at how, how, how the dots connected, how many people I've met through the, through these gigs.

And valuable connections that were not cold leads. Is that what you call it?

Yeah, that that's really been a game changer because then also what you can do is cause you own the images, you can sell them afterwards to those people that you photograph. So there's that option. So again, it was a great basis. And although after a while it got a bit too much almost because, and first I was just doing mainly editorial, but then I was also doing advertorials, which means, you know, people that pay to be.

You know, in the magazine, but what that meant was there was sometimes 30 or even more assignments in a month. And when I say in a month, I mean, like, maybe three weeks or so, um, or even more. And that doesn't even count the other jobs I may have had. So it was. It was very fast paced and, you know, with deadlines, which was good in a way for me, having those deadlines, but, um, It teaches you, you know, or reinforces time management and having to deal with multiple, I mean, really like, and you're a solopreneur.

I mean, you are the only person working in your business. So you had a lot of balls to, you know, To juggle. You had a lot to do. My ADHD diagnosed. I think it was in general, in general, the focus on my mental health. That was another important pivotal moment on my journey. And you know, it had to do with obviously getting divorced, going through that, and then also understanding here I am on my own.

Yes, I have my son that lives here, but you know, he has got his own life and he's an adult, but here I am and really realizing that I am my best advocate. I need to be my best advocate, right? I need to look at what I want, what I can do, what I can't do, and I need to stand up for myself. And there was a moment like that with editorial stuff when it just got too much, and I had a hard time saying no, but it just, for my mental health, it just got too much.

I knew that. You know, I didn't want to feel resentment or anything. So although I was risking losing this opportunity altogether, I just, you know, negotiate it anyway. And I basically said, I can't do it all. I can only do part of it. And it turned out great actually, because I still do the editorial and it's there.

They're more manageable. The amount of assignments you may have anywhere between like two, three to nine assignments a month. So that's doable, right? But it's not too overwhelming. I can still do my other gigs. Yeah. So, but that the important part was to really stand up for myself and look at what I need.

Absolutely. And like the personal development component, because the person you were 12 years ago, or even when you were talking about when your son was four to the person that. Becomes a photographer to the person who becomes an overworked photographer. And then, you know, the personal development track of all sorts of things you had to learn about yourself.

Yeah. My mental health, you know, journey, like advocating for myself, being my best advocate, realizing that, and yeah, just, just really sitting with it. And, and, you know, obviously if I, you know, I have therapists and later on, you know, I've got coaches now, but really looking at what it is that you need. And what you can do and can't do being very honest about that and realizing it's a journey and you're on a journey that you're okay with exploring different parts of who you are, in order to become a different version of yourself, instead of just, I guess, maintaining status quo.

This is the way it is. Instead, you decided to question yourself question other things and to be on this incredible journey. And where did that take me next? And it's interesting because I'm also going to pick up on something you said earlier, where you said, you know, outgrowing the role, right? So there was a little bit part of that where I was like, well, maybe I have outgrown that role.

But I think what happened is that I was able to come up with the compromise. To still be able to do that partially that will take on that role or stay in that role, but downsize to where it was more manageable and not overwhelming. Right. So that was the big thing. And it served you the way you wanted it to.

But at the same time, risking, you know, risking losing the gig all together, which is, that was, I mean, you don't want to lose a good client. If that was also feeding you, like you said, through that. To them directly, but indirectly, because you're working for them, you attract other clients, you're photographing for them.

So that, that's hard too. It's a tough, it's a tough compromise that thinking there's this nice funnel of clients to you. It's, it's a tough, it's a tough. Absolutely. But again, I think it was this moment of this gut feeling, just knowing something needed to change. I was not going to be happy. I was going to be resentful.

I was not going to enjoy what I do. So, you know, making that decision was also again, one of the very, very difficult ones, but I'm glad I did. And it all just kind of worked out honestly. And it, again, also just getting, having that confidence that if it doesn't work out, I'll figure out a way how to move on.

I'll, I'll figure something else out. You know, having that confidence in yourself. I really love that these pivotal moments that you keep referencing that you are able to make that decision. And I'm sure that doesn't mean you've always made the decision that you wanted to make, but that on these really important ones, you were able to listen to yourself and to make these decisions.

I think that's very, very powerful. Yeah, no, And it's very interesting. The recollection of all these pivotal moments talking to you about that, you know, cause again, we kind of forget it's, it's. Yeah, I appreciate this conversation very much, for sure. Yeah. Okay, so you've made this choice that you are listening to yourself and you're scaling back from being overworked at this, this one publication that you're working for, and you have your own photography business.

Going strongly. And then what's the next big thing that happens in your career? Yeah, the next big thing was in 2020 during COVID. It was, um, a project that I heard about, where they're looking for a photographer. It was called Phoenix Her Stories. And it was, uh, basically for the city of Phoenix, it was the Arizona Women's Commission.

And I hope I'm getting all this right. And the Women's Commission, uh, for the city of Phoenix, they, uh, did this project for the hundredth anniversary. Of the 19th amendment of women's voting rights. I basically won the bid and I'd never, you know, done something like that. So that was very interesting too.

And it was photographing 31 women that were influential in city of Phoenix. You know, for, um, the community that are very, very much involved in making the city a better place. So it included the mayor. Uh, which Kate Gallego, um, the, the vice mayor at the time, and several, a couple of council women, some native American women that, you know, it was, again, it was very interesting to hear their stories for me myself, because it also included me recording video, like interviewing them.

And I had not done video before. It's not something that I'm crazy about doing in the future either, but I really wanted this gig and I, you know, talked to a friend and he helped me, uh, get things set up and ended up doing it. But yeah, it was, uh, it was a great experience, 31 women. And it was during COVID.

In the summer, in the summer of COVID. So that was a bit of a challenge. Unfortunately, because of COVID, the exhibit never took place. There was supposed to be an exhibit with the images. But wasn't it projected on a, on a hotel? Yeah, it was, it was great. It was the Foundry Hotel downtown. And I had known the marketing person.

And again, this is another thing that. Was, um, was great because of the editorial work that I've done. I had this connection with the marketing person at the hotel and I know they had, you know, they always project images on the side of their wall. So I was able to reach out and ask if that was an option to do that.

And for like a month, they were. Projected on the wall. Yeah, that's amazing. And then now I always have to make this connection. So your teacher recommends that you enter this, this competition, which leads to an internship, which leads to all sorts of contacts and all sorts of great opportunities, which leads to this incredible project that you're working on for the city of Phoenix.

Wow, that's a lot. I mean, but if you think about it, it goes back to that one courageous decision, which ends up being a lot more More courageous decisions as just bidding on this, this job for the city of Phoenix. You had to have had some fears when putting that proposal together. I mean, it's a big, it's a big, I don't want to diminish because you're an excellent photographer.

So it's not like there's any reason that you should professionally feel that you're not qualified for it, but just, you know, As a human, I think that there's those moments where you think, Oh my, you know, wow, this is, this is a big, this is a big opportunity. Am I good enough? Or, or am I qualified? Like those, those silly, like limiting beliefs that pop up all the time when they shouldn't, because you're clearly an excellent, you're clearly an excellent photographer capable of doing everything that you want to do.

But it's, It's, it's, it's amazing how those, those terrible thoughts sneak in at the worst time. Yes, it does. And you know, I had the hardest time to call myself a photographer. Like I remember that was probably maybe when I started doing that tutorial. So about maybe seven years ago, although I've had my business for what, 10, 12, 12 years, you know, but it took me a long time to actually call myself a photographer.

And we've had many conversations. Yes. Limiting beliefs, imposter syndrome, all of it. Things that shouldn't even be showing up, but they do. And you have to just fight them away. And these courageous steps make that, make that move, submit the bid and do it because you're, you're completely qualified. Yeah.

And I mean, I'm not saying that it's vanished into an air overnight. There are still moments when, you know, you have the imposter syndrome or limited beliefs. And I think that's when it's important to have. Supportive friends, especially in the community that you're working in. Like in our case, other photographers and you guys have been so much of a support for me in that regard.

And you in particular, being able to talk through some of those limiting beliefs. I'm glad you brought that up because I don't think some people are loners in this business and they think they can go about. I think without a photography community, because oddly, like you think they're your competitors, but some people look at every photographer as their direct competitor.

When really the people who are within your industry or within the niche within your industry are going to be some of your biggest supporters. And they're also going to be the people who being repetitive, support you when you need to talk things through their, their resource when it comes to maybe they've done it and you haven't.

But they're also a referral source as well. Like it becomes, the community is there to support and to raise each other up, which is fantastic, which is what I love about most photography communities that I've been part of. They're there to help each other. And I think those that stay on the outside of that and don't recognize the power of community, it's a disservice to them and to, to moving their, their business and career forward.

Yeah, no, definitely. I think it's been so helpful for me having the photography community. Oh, there goes my Zoe. I'm sorry. Okay, so tell me about the next pivotal moment in your life. The next one would have definitely been my ADHD diagnosis, or even just having it on my radar that that was a thing that this, you know, potential that I have it.

Um, yeah, a couple things came together that made me research that. adoption and my son was diagnosed in his early 20s and I remember him at the time also saying, you know, mom, you should probably get checked out because you probably have it too because it's hereditary usually. So, so anyway, I, I did, I researched that and um, I ended up taking a course with this lady that was very good.

Um, And I remember sitting there at night in my, in my bed on my iPad and reading, I became a member of this group, Facebook group called, um, ADHD for smart ass women and, uh, great title, right? Uh, Tracy Otsuka is the one that started it. She's since then, since I've met her or, you know, She's now got her own podcast book and everything.

Anyway, so I remember laying in bed reading, you know, being a part of this Facebook group and I remember literally like laughing out loud and also crying because yeah, because so many things that was said there and shared made so much sense. This is so me and a lot of the things that I felt shame. For in the past where I'm talked about and it just really opened my eyes and really did.

And yeah, so I ended up researching that more and more and I found, I found this program called Atka that basically does a program to become a life coach for people with ADHD, but that's like three modules. And the first two modules were like learning about ADHD. The second module was like, How to learn how to help yourself.

And the third module was to become a coach. And, uh, I was like, you know what, let me just sign up for the first two. It wasn't cheap, but it just, it just made sense to me because I remember why am I, could be signing up for another photography related course. Cause I remember at the time thinking, let me do this photography class with this guy in Italy.

Right, which would have been great, I'm sure, but it would have been about photography. And I felt like my photography skills were at a point where, yes, there was still room for improvement. There always is, but I had a good basis, but I, I knew that something else was missing, which was always getting to the point where, yes, I spend money on these classes or workshops or whatever, but especially it was business workshops, but I don't implement the stuff.

There was always something that. Stop me from really benefiting from these courses, whether it was self help books, all these things. I just knew something else was holding me back. Something else was not right to where I wanted to focus on that. So I was like, you know what? Rather than spending time money, as much as a trip to Italy would have been great, but rather than spending that money, let me invest it in me, into the core of me, into something that affects my entire life.

My entire being, not just the business side, but my personal life. So that's why I ended up taking that course. And that's like hearing this thread again, I'm going to keep just reminding people who are listening that you have shown us at least three or four times in this conversation that you've listened to yourself, that you, you paid attention to something that was happening in you and you, you did something about it versus ignoring it, trying to push it away and not.

Not embrace it and contend with it. Thank you for pointing that out. Cause again, I, I feel like it's something that I forget when I can give myself more credit sometimes, you know, cause we, we forget to do that. Right. All the time. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Thank you for saying that, but yeah, that was life changing in a very, very positive way because I remember in the first couple of classes, you know, we're on a zoom call with real people and, uh, most of them have ADHD themselves.

And I just felt for the first time, I really felt understood. Right. Without having to explain much, I felt a sense of real sense of community and understanding and comfort and a safe space without judgment, that self judgment as well, and not just exterior. But that was, that was really just a life changing moment, like learning about ADHD, how it affects me.

Right. And, and being able to go back in my life and even look at, oh my God, yeah, the trajectory of my life. This makes more sense. This makes more sense. Knowing that I always felt different and I didn't know how it just took a real weight off my shoulders and knowing that some of the things that I didn't like about myself or that I had a hard time with that they weren't character flaws, but it was just that the way my brain worked, that it worked differently.

That's really important. And that's. So important to say, and to know, and to accept, and to try to understand, and to, like you said, when you're, you have shame, and all these feelings about yourself, and you can't explain certain things, and it's, we're all minded differently, so to be able to uncover that at whatever age you uncover it, just so that it's not too late that you can understand yourself.

Exactly. It is never too late. Absolutely. Never too late. And that, that was another thing that I did that showed me that, um, so I ended up doing this program. So I did the first two modules, right? And pretty much from the beginning, I was like, Oh, my God, this makes so much sense. Like, I want to learn more.

And I want to not just help myself and maybe my son, you know, as far as immediate, but help others because it helped me so much. So, so yeah, I ended up doing, uh, signing up for the third module as well, which was the coaching. And, uh, that led to making amazing friends that I have not even, you know, some of them I haven't met in person yet.

One of them I have, but yeah. And, and then the coaching, the coaching itself. And I, it, it's so interesting because you did, you did the. Even speaking. I mean, I know that we spoke to each other about that. We were both doing these programs, but that we both independently for becoming coaches and your path was different than mine.

It's interesting that we both kind of came to coaching, maybe to answer questions for ourselves that we couldn't answer and to also have tools. I think, I don't know exactly why I became a life coach, except. That I wanted to be able to answer probably more for myself. Like it was part of that and I'm still on this personal development journey that I'm never going to get off of because I think it's changed me as a person, made me a better person and then made my interactions with people better, if better is the right word.

So I don't know like what led you down or why we were both independently of each other on a different Coaching path, but on a coaching path. So it's very interesting that that happened. Yeah, I think it's, I think it's the thirst and the, the, yeah, for growth and understanding. I think it's the sense of curiosity that we both share, you know, curiosity about the world, but also about.

Who we are and how we fit into this world and what we can do in this world. So it's a sense of curiosity. I think that's always driven me. And that's something that I, one of the things I really like about myself, if it's a couple of things that that would be one of them, because I feel like it's also gotten me to explore different opportunities, being curious, which now in retrospect, I'm like, Oh yeah, it kind of makes sense with the ADHD.

But yeah, we both did it about the same time and it's slightly different, but yeah, so for me doing the coaching, I feel like all the time, so let's see this, this happened in 2021, I got my diagnosis late 2021, the official diagnosis, 22, I did the program and then I got actually certified because you have to have so many hours about six months later.

So the interesting thing is I feel like all the coaching that we did, because as a, as part of the. The program that you do, you have to coach each other, right? As, as practice that in itself, and then staying connected with some of the people that have become friends with, with the program and coaching each other and just being there for each other in case, you know, you need something that's been so valuable to me because to this day, I still meet usually once a week with one friend who is in Madrid.

Who's British, who lives in Madrid, and another friend who's, uh, Peoria, Illinois. No, I'm going to say that. I just want to say the same with me. Like we literally have a weekly accountability of the group. There's three of us, there's others that we're still in touch with, but there's a core group of three of us and one's in Switzerland, I'm now in France.

And the other woman splits her time between Tucson and Hawaii. So we have multiple time zones, but we, we figure out how to speak like every Tuesday and it's an accountability group that kind of keeps us not even maybe accountability is not always the right word, but it's a support group for the program that we were in and what we're going through and, and, you know, how we're evolving from it.

I love that because you can really make some great connections that way, right? Share something like that. Cause it's really in depth and like, because with the coaching, you know, because you, you provide a judgment free space for the person that you coach. And the biggest thing is, is being able to verbally process and as much as you can do that with friends.

And I know I've done that many times with you to where, you know, you're like, Oh my God, this is like, now I have so much more clarity. It just makes a bit more sense than before with the coaching. No. In the proper coaching setting, the one that we learned, you don't really make suggestions unless you ask permission, unless you feel very strongly about it.

You let the person process. You only ask yes or no question. Yes or no answer questions. And, uh, you're curious, you're curious about the person. You let them talk by 80 percent of the time and that in itself, doing that over and over again, As practice for the program, but then continuing that after it was over really, um, has really helped me with my self confidence because I think the main thing about the coaching that we've learned, the life coaching is to learn that you have the answers within.

To right by knowing that, okay, this person is curious about me. How can I help myself? What do I even want kind of clarity? Do I need the coach basically just helps you to get that out and to get you have everything you need in you. You're right. Exactly. That we hold on complete as we are. We just may need a little help to get to that inside.

Exactly. To discover it, to be curious about it, to, to exactly. I think curiosity is the key word. Is that really. Helps you discover things exactly like why and how and what helps you and so that that was one of again another Big part of my personal development and on my personal growth and of my healing journey.

Finally being, finally being at a point where even though things don't always go as planned, even though things can be really tough sometimes and I still have tough moments, trust me, tough days, weeks, just being confident that whatever happens, I'll figure it out. Maybe, you know, maybe with the help of some friends and being able to verbally process again and talk, but having the confidence that I'll, I'll manage, I'll figure it out somehow.

It sounds like you have tools to help you with this, that the coaching has provided you those tools, but also all of this, this whole trajectory over your lifetime and that you can, like you said, rely on yourself and you know, you know, you've got your own back and you're going to figure it out. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And that, and that's huge, especially being single. Right. You know, as much as that can be difficult at times, right? Doing everything alone. But I feel like again, it's helped me grow, be stronger. And again, I'm not saying I don't have it all figured out. Trust me. And actually, just yesterday I had a bit of a tough day, and this morning it was a little bit of a tough morning.

But then I have to remind myself that because of my ADHD, my emotions are amplified, sometimes struggle with emotional dysregulation. So again, the The lows are, can be really low, but the highs can also be really high. And then remembering that it does this temporary, right? Like that I, for this in particular, what happened with me yesterday, a couple of things that came together and it just kind of put me in a little bit of a negative mood, you know, in a bad mood and a little bit of sadness there, but just reminding myself that a lot of things came together and it's going to be okay, it's today is intense.

That's going to be okay. Again, further proof that you have the tools that, like you said, not every day is going to be good. You're not going to figure it out exactly the way you want. It's not going to all line up or fall into place. But just the idea that you can take a deep breath, that you can stop, and that you can, again, use the tools that you have.

The ability to self reflect and to discover what it is, again, it's curiosity. Yeah, absolutely. Curiosity is the key and awareness, self awareness, you know, knowing how you tick, right? Knowing what makes you feel good and what doesn't, like, I have my happy playlist on Spotify. If I really need to get out of a funk, I listen to that because music and are they exploring that more and more can have such a positive impact on you.

And that discovering the ADHD diagnosis or uncovering the ADHD diagnosis. And then where did that go? What happened next? I know there's some big recently you've had a lot going on. So can we speak specifically to how. ADHD and your photography have come together. Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. So after I did the, um, The certification, become a coach.

I was like, okay. I, again, it's this like thinking of, okay, I did all this, I put all this work into it and this education, all this money. Now I need to do something with it. Now I need to become a coach too. You know, even if it's on the side. And I did a little bit of it, but again, in my gut there was like, I kind of knew it wasn't really what I wanted to do and or at least not it.

It wasn't the time, right. What I wanted to do. And I remember thinking back to the first few. Times when I was sitting there in that zoom call on my in my class. I remember thinking oh my god I'd love to photograph all of you, right? I'd love to photograph these people that share this with me But that was again like over a year and a half ago or something or two years ago So then I ended up having a coaching session around With my friends around eight months ago or so ten months ago Right around the new years.

And I was specifically thinking about, okay, what kind of plans do I have for the next year? What do I want to do? What goals do I have? And in this coaching session, it really dawned on me that, uh, the clarity that came to me was that I don't want to just do regular coaching. I want to somehow combine it with my photography.

And I've been wanting to do a photography project, photographing adults with ADHD, but I didn't completely put the two together. I realized that that's what I need to focus on until that coaching session. So again, it shows how valuable coaching session can be, right? So what I ended up doing is, I knew I wanted to do something with multiple exposures for this project.

I had not really experimented with it, maybe just once or twice. I also knew that I wanted to do something in color. Well, not at the time, at the beginning, I was like, yeah, black and white, multiple exposures show the different layers, maybe the masking that we as ADHD is often do, but then eventually, and this is again, the start of what's going on for like a year.

And then eventually I was like, no, it needs to be color needs to be color because we are very vibrant personalities, usually vibrant personalities. And as much as I love black and white, and there's an important place for it in photography, I felt like for this project, it wasn't, Right. Because I didn't want it to be coming across as like a somber, sad project.

And again, I don't want to, I'm not saying everything as black and white is sad, but for me, it just didn't, it just didn't work. So I knew I wanted to do color and I had these led lights that I had never used except for once as a constant light source for a fashion shoot at an aquarium, actually. So anyway, so I knew that they could do color and, uh, So I ended up doing, asking a friend of mine that I had met at a Creative Mornings event.

And I said, why don't you come on over and we'll do a test shoot. So I did this test shoot the end of last year, like the 27th of December. And um, we first did just headshots for her, but then I set up my lights and I'm just playing around with it. And as soon as I turned it on, it was changing colors. I'm like, huh, this might be cool.

So anyway, so I was, I had one strobe, I had these two led lights, I think maybe just one at the time, changing colors. And I was playing around multiple exposures. I did like four or five different exposures, multiple exposures on top of each other. So yeah, the results are basically pretty much captured in camera.

I don't do any layering in Photoshop. And that was very important to me because as a person with ADHD, I knew that I would be totally overwhelmed trying to figure out which image I'm going to layer on top of the other, you know, there was so many, endless up. Possibilities. I knew I was going to overwhelm myself and I was going to go through analysis paralysis and this project would have never been where it is today.

I would have maybe done one or two shoots and that's it. So, knowing myself better, knowing I needed to find a way to do this quickly, somewhat instantly. without a lot of post production, I knew that that was the right approach. So yeah, so what we did is we popped in the card and looked through the images together, picked our final images, and, uh, I ended up showing that photo to a friend of mine who is an assistant curator at a, um, Gallery downtown.

And actually I, she was just asking, so what have you been up to? And I showed her the image. We happened to sit next to each other at a mutual friend's birthday party. And I just showed her the image. I'm like, yeah, it was excited. Right. I just did this. And she was like, Oh my God, these are, this is amazing.

Can you share this with me? I want to share it with the curator. Cause we have an upcoming show on a Saturday and a Monday, I get a phone call from the curator. And she's like, yeah, so at that point, I only had one image. And I was like, Oh, I better get to work. Cause she was like, yep, we want you in the show and you can have 10 to 12 images.

So yeah, that's another example of you putting yourself out there, whether you knew it or not, that you put yourself out there for this to be a pivotal moment in your career and in your life. Yeah, and I think it also shows again that opportunities, right, they're not going to present themselves by themselves.

No one's knocking at your door saying, I'm sorry, do you have an ADHD photo that we can have a gallery? You know, we have a show coming up. No, I absolutely like sharing what excites you. I think sharing what excites you. Being, you know, especially if you're proud of it, share that shit, sorry. Share it, share it with the world, share it with friends.

Especially if you might need a little bit of encouragement, but you're something you're proud of, it's sharing it. Sharing with the people that, yeah, that, that. Sharing without expectation. You didn't show that picture because you were hoping somebody's going to offer you a gallery viewing. I mean, a gallery show.

That's not why you showed it. You showed it because. That's a part of you. You showed it because you're empathetic because you're passionate because of all these reasons that you feel so powerful about what you were doing, that you just wanted to share it with somebody. And then that led to that led to something, but that wasn't the objective.

You weren't trying to solicit business from this person. You were just. Honestly, showing them something that meant something to you and that makes you uniquely you and I think a lot of photographers lose, lose sight of the fact that you don't have to be like everybody else. You don't have to be a clone of every other photographer when you go out on a limb and you interpret something like you did, like you saw something and you acted on it.

And that's, that's Again, very powerful because a lot of people don't take those chances. They think that they have to just create the same images that, that everyone else creates in order to compete. And it's like exactly the opposite. It's by being unique that you stand out. Yeah. Couldn't have said it better.

Finding a passion project was something I'd always wanted, but it's like, it's almost like you can't force it. I don't know. I mean, I couldn't force it. Other people may, but for me personally, it was, it just all fell into place. Yeah. It's really interesting how it all came about. And when I say it all came from film places, you know, this isn't, you didn't, it's not luck and it's not happenstance.

This happened because of, even though you didn't know where this was going, it happened because like you said earlier, one step leads to another step. It leads to another step and all these steps kind of connect. And then here we are all these years later, and you're embarking on this personal project that now has been in multiple galleries.

And. It's just kind of like a freight train getting out of the, out of the station. It's just going. So I think it's exciting. Yeah, you're right. And I'm super, I'm so excited about, I'm so passionate about it. It's almost like I cannot not do it. It's, it's, I feel like it's bigger than me and there's so much potential to, you know, do a lot of things to make a statement, to raise awareness about ADHD, to be creative, um, help individuals.

on their healing journey and others that may look at it, that may look at the images and see themselves represented. Very powerful. Yeah, there's, um, because what I've done now, and it's kind of morphed into that where when I do my sessions and I think I've done 16 now, I did one last night to, um, 16, 17, and, uh, I basically record, uh, I sit down with the individuals beforehand.

I send them a pre shoot form, asking them questions about their ADHD, like what they like about it, what they don't like about what they struggle with, what emotions they would like to portray. And, um, and then we talk about the, what they filled out and we just have an interesting conversation. It's not quite a coaching session, but it's still exchanging like experiences.

And, and sometimes I can throw in a couple of facts, the things that I know about ADHD that they may not. So I get a lot of positive feedback in that, that regard, especially if people don't, um, yeah, don't, don't have, haven't had that experience and haven't had, uh, I've done a lot of research, maybe on the topic, because the thing is, you may get a diagnosis and then you're like, okay, here's your medication, right?

Yeah, but I think the important thing is, is understanding yourself, understanding yourself better, like why you do certain things, and a lot of us ADHDers have certain things in common. So, yeah. Why not explore that? Well, I like how it's come full circle. The fact you're able to use the coaching with the photography, with your creativity and that your, your ability to photograph people is something that I think is a passion of yours.

So like having all of those things come together into a project that speaks to you like this. Absolutely. There's so many points because connection is something in retrospect now that I know that is one of my needs. Like I've done like these, these surveys, right? Like about your values, needs. What else?

Yeah. And my top need was connection. So knowing that, again, also helps me just in general in life, like if I'm not in a good space, I might, I just might need to reach out to a friend because connection helps me, right? Puts me in a better mood. So connecting with these people like this gentleman last night that I photographed, I'd never met him before.

I knew his girlfriend and she introduced us. But. It's like when you, when you can walk away with a smile and hug each other and feel, there's just a sense of connection there. When you know someone understands you and gets you without having to explain too much. That's super valuable. Yeah. So we talk about it.

We talk about emotions they want to portray. Then we do the shoot. And, um, You know, it began with the multiple exposures and then we look at them together and then we pick the final image together. It must be so interesting, like so rewarding for both, both parties to see these images come together and discussion that you have and how it all comes to light.

The power of photography, the power of all of this working together is just pretty incredible. Yeah, you're right. Portraits, being able to connect. I mean, and you know, when you take. Portraits, there's definitely, it's a very intimate experience, right? Taking portraits. Cause they're vulnerable in front of the camera for you.

So you providing a safe space for them is very important to get authentic portraits. So obviously I try to do that, but yeah, this project, I feel like puts the portrait, portrait photography for me on another level, if that makes sense. That's great. And it's, it's like this collaborative effort. It's not just.

It's not just me taking the photos and deciding on everything, it's being able to decide which emotions they want to show and help decide on the final image. I feel like that's also very empowering to the people that I photograph. Absolutely. It's not a one sided relationship or photo shoot or however the right way to put it.

It's a term that because it's a collaboration, you are the photographer and you are the coach really. And it's not like, it's kind of a session of sorts that results in the photograph that pulls out of them what they want to show. Yeah, that's so true. That's so true. I didn't even think of it exactly like that, but it's almost like a coaching session in itself to where the whole process, because again, them having a say in what the final image is, is that empowerment, like knowing they have the answers, right?

Like. Because I'm showing who they are and what they need to have a big say in that, you know, I'm not saying this is who you are. No, they get to say who they are. Yeah. One of my, uh, one of the people I photographed, one of my friends, actually, she said something beautiful afterwards. She said something along the lines of that she was talking about how it's important to feel seen.

But she also said in this image that I created, that For the first time, she felt like she was really able to see herself as a whole. Yeah, there's so many good quotes that people said. One of the gentlemen I photographed, and again, I had met him maybe once briefly, but we had a great conversation. And I told him that I was going to give him print of the image afterwards.

And he said he was going to give it to his mom. And when I asked why, he said, because I wanted to see how I feel. Yeah. Wow. So it felt good. Yeah. Again, I'm gonna say powerful again, but that is very powerful, which leads me to my next question. Cool. Where do you see this going? Or where do you see yourself in five or ten years?

Like, this is just another pivotal moment, it seems, in a series of big moments in your life. Yeah, yeah, you're right. And it's one of the things I've always had a hard time with goals. I think it's maybe also because of ADHD and having the fear of letting myself or others down if I don't achieve the goal.

So with this project, it's slightly different though, because again, I feel like it's bigger than myself. I'm not just doing it for me. And I think that's why the power behind it, the force behind it is stronger. What I'd like to do is a book with, uh, with the images and, uh, You know, one side, the image and on the other side, the name, and maybe a little bit of the, like some quotes of what they said or what emotions they want to portray.

I have that audio, which I haven't done anything with, but, you know, cause I record the audio when we talk, have that conversation before and after. So I don't know, I, I could even see, I'd love to maybe travel this, the country, the world, and, you know, Take this project on the road, do these shoots, um, in different places, different countries.

And by doing that again, raising awareness, helping individuals, but raising awareness overall. Helping to break the stigma. And, uh, yeah, I'm not sure exactly how to, how to get there. You know, I'm going to go to the ADHD conference later this year, hoping to connect with people who are, um, in that world and influencers in that world.

Because I mean, the truth is, this is all coming out of my own pocket right now. I'm not, I've not made any money, but I've spent a lot of time on it and that's okay. Cause again, it's important to me, but the more time I spend on it, the less time I can spend on my business and making money. So. There is that aspect, you know, I'd love to maybe do t shirts, but I think for that, it would make sense to maybe photograph people who are well known in the ADHD community.

I don't know, like people like Trevor Noah, Mel Robbins, you know, Michael Phelps, you know, people who've, Simone Biles, people who have admitted to having ADHD and are open about it. So maybe there's a way to collaborate. I'd also thought about maybe pharma industry is if, because I know some people with ADHD have a hard time getting diagnosed, because especially those who struggle with ADHD, who have have a negative impact on their life because of it, because they switch jobs, they may not have health insurance.

So a lot of those are the ones that potentially could really benefit from help. Whether it's medicine or therapy, so if there's a way to create a fund or something to help individuals like that, yeah, I don't know. I don't have all the answers, and if things I think if you look at just how things have progressed, it's just maybe by you putting it out.

In the universe like you are, it's probably just naturally going to happen the way you want it to happen or the way it's meant to happen and how what that looks like. It's impossible to know. But what you do know, it seems is that this is going to continue. It sounds like things are in the works. I think so.

Again, it's like, there's, I cannot not do it. It's just, it's, it's so important to me. And I, I feel very strongly about the potential. And I had, you know, shortly done a little bit of research at the beginning of the project. And I hadn't found anything like it. And I don't think there's anything like it.

And I actually even, again, invested some money to get a business coach to help me with that, making decisions on what to do and how to get help. And because again, I'm still a one woman show. I mean, I know obviously Keith and I work together, but even still, I think having that outside person to speak to that can speak into your business, that can see things that you may not see.

I think business coaches are just a fantastic use of. Your time, if you're trying to run a business and trying to do a million things, and you can't always see exactly what may be right in front of you or ideas that you may not have come up with on your own, or you're in your same bullshit every day. So you can't see things the way an outsider can see them.

So coaching. Play a huge role. And especially definitely if you're a solo printer, I mean, you have so much going on in your head, I'm sure. Nevermind just your work schedule and the day to day is like, you have all these bigger things that you want to be doing. So it's hard without somebody kind of.

Helping to keep you in line or helping you prioritize like the outcomes that you want for your business. Absolutely. I agree. I mean the thing not having a coach in your life is a disservice to you. I think it's very helpful. Yeah. And I'm super grateful for having several, you know, couple of coaches in my life.

Right. And I also have a therapist. So it's all part of my, my journey and that sense of overwhelm, you know, like when you said it's so much going on again, the other day I felt that like, you know, Just a sense of overwhelm because so much to do and because again, people with ADHD, we can, I mean, not that you have to have ADHD to feel overwhelmed, but it can just be so detrimental to where you just freeze, you can't do anything.

And, you know, if I get into these moments, I know I can reach out to people, just remind myself that. This is probably just temporary and I had an off day or whatever. And then, wait, wait a minute. I was exhausted. Cause I stayed out till three o'clock Saturday and I was celebrating my friend's 40th birthday.

Yes. Analysis paralysis. Right. Yes. So sense of overwhelm. You don't have to have ADHD to get that. But again, for people with ADHD, it's maybe. More pronounced and you get analysis paralysis to where you can't do anything. Executive function skills. We have a hard time with meaning going from idea to plan to execution.

So there's a lot of things that I'm now way more aware of than I used to be. Just understanding my ADHD better to know where I may need help with. It's not going to be solve everything. There's still moments that, you know, you get stuck and you need help. But sense of awareness is important. Knowing. And for anyone who is listening, I think that being self aware and, and trying to discover what goes on within you, within this wonderful brain of ours, trying to figure it out, you'll never get to the bottom of everything, but you can try to do.

Like you said, the word curiosity to me is one of the best words in the world because being curious about why am I thinking that or why am I acting this way? Why am I doing this? Why do I keep doing repetitive behaviors that aren't good for me? Like being curious about why you do things and curiosity to me is a key word in, in, um, The never ending evolution and I mean that in the most positive way of who we are as people.

Absolutely. And you know, growing pains, they're called that for a reason. It's not, you know, you grow, but it can hurt. It can be painful, but it's also important to, you know, to reach out and very important. Which leads me to a question I want to ask every, I want to ask this question since you're my first guest, but I will ask, I will ask this to you first.

But, um, if you had to think of one mindset shift that you've had, And it can be this week, or it could be over the last 15 or 20 years, if there's, Within your play photography business, if you can think of one mindset shift to get you either from where you started to where you are now, or from what you did yesterday to where you are now, like if there's a mindset shift, you can think of that either you rely on or you know, as a turning point.

Yeah, it's almost like two things I feel like, but one important one, I feel like is courage is courage to, to try something new, you know, courage to start without having everything figured out. If you feel strongly about something, about an idea, start it. You don't have to have it all figured out. I mean, yeah, you want to do some homework and some research, but it's important to just to just doing.

And again, that's something that you've taught me. You've shown me and I've also experienced. I've experienced myself, how there can, there can be a lot of magic behind that door that you end up opening without knowing exactly what's there. I think you've demonstrated that a few times in this conversation, just showing us what, what you've, what you've tried.

And I think that having the courage to do it is, is huge. So yeah, no, but the other thing I was going to say is, um, you know, the one thing is the courage. And then the other hand, it's the, the grace you give yourself, the empathy you give yourself when things don't go as planned, when you need some downtime, you know, to give that to yourself, to listen to yourself, to be self aware and to really remember that you are your own best advocate.

And stop acting like your own worst enemy, because when you do beat yourself up and Constantly remind yourself of the failures you've had or mistakes that you've made that doesn't serve you at all. And I think that's really important because beating yourself up definitely doesn't serve you at all. And giving yourself grace and being understanding and realizing that we're all human and everyone, Makes mistakes and doesn't do things perfectly.

And that's just okay. I also want to ask you one more thing. Well, I could ask you a million more things, but definitely one more thing that I want to, since I've been talking and I'm asking you a lot of questions, but there's one specific, I want to make sure that I ask you, is there anything else that you would like to share today?

Cause I definitely led this conversation. So is there anything that you would like to say photographers out there that are either struggling or. Doing a great job, but that, you know, maybe need a little encouragement or anything else I'd like to share. Um, yeah, as far as photographers in particular, but I guess it's for everyone is, you know, taking the time to get to know yourself, to figure out.

What you need to be successful to be the happy version of you and, um, to see what you need to get there, right? But having a support system, whatever that is, whether it's people, certain type of people, whether it's your happy playlist on Spotify, like mine, having a Having a go to list of support and what, you know, just knowing, getting to know what helps you, because what helps one person doesn't necessarily mean it helps you.

Self help books are great, and you can maybe take one thing out of it, but not beating yourself up if that self help doesn't Book doesn't apply to you, because that's what I've done in the past. So being curious to pick up on that word again, being curious about who you are and who you want to be. Yeah.

And like for me personally, I feel like I'm, I'm more myself today than I've ever been my entire life. And that's almost making me emotional. Yeah. I'm getting it. I'm getting emotional to say that because I think that line sums everything up. And that that's, What a way to end this because you summed it up perfectly.

That is. Yeah. Well, there's one more quote too, that I love too about that, which means, which says something about, um, becoming more of who you are rather than overcoming who you are. And that really, I remember the first time I read that, I'm like, Oh my God, that's like so true.

That's such a beautiful quote. And I also, not to bring this back to business, but I feel like if more people approach their business, With that quote in mind and realize that they need to be themselves like you need to be you and that's what makes you different. That's what makes people want to work with you, want to reach out to you for projects, want to bring you into their gallery that when you're uniquely you and you, Don't shy away from it and you can embrace yourself and who you are and not trying to be like everybody else.

I think that, honestly, is one of the best pieces of advice that, that might be my new quote that I, that I have on my website because I think that, that literally sums it up in one sentence. Like, be you. I mean, everyone else is taken anyway, so just be yourself and it's amazing. Like the strides and absolutely amazing that your life will hold and whatever you need to get there.

You know, go for it. Yeah. Courage, curiosity, support and figure out who you are. Those are great words to end on, but I don't want to end yet until you tell us, tell, tell all of us, the listeners, and I know where to find you, but where does everyone else So for my personal project, the ADHD project, it's very simple.

It's may I have your attention at calm and you believe that was not taken like that. May I have your attention. com also on Instagram underscore. May I have your attention? Underscore my regular website, which needs work. A lot of work again, you know, sense of overwhelm so much to do, but, uh, prioritizing anyway.

It's called Das Fotohaus. I'm not sure if you put it in the show notes, but I will put all of this in the show notes. It's C A S F O T O H A U S. And that combines, of course, my German heritage, my background, and also my architecture degree. I like that. That's why I chose it. That's very nice. I'll definitely share everything in the show notes because I think that everyone should go explore that project that you're working on because it's fascinating.

It's beautiful. I'll do that to you and I won't record that, but that, you know, the, everyone should go check her. Everybody should go check out the, both, both your regular work, your regular Instagram and your, your, May I have your attention? May I have your attention? Because your work is outstanding. Thank you.

And also if, you know, again, if you have ADHD or you know someone with ADHD, please reach out. Because, you know, maybe there's a way to collaborate, to do a shoot together. Because I Obviously, this is an ongoing project, so I'm very curious to photograph a variety of people. I love that. Everyone reach out to her because not only, well, you'll have a new friend, you'll have a new photographer friend, if nothing else.

Exactly. Claudia, thank you. I can't thank you enough for being here. Being my first guest and for giving us this much time. And I'm so excited to share this with everyone and couldn't appreciate you anymore. Well, you know that I love you and thank you so much. Thank you. I feel so special. Seriously. I feel special anyway, being an important person in your life.

So, but this is, this is an extra special for sure. And I'm excited to where you will go with this. Yeah. And I love talking to you. So this was amazing. Thank you. Me too. Thank you. Thanks.